Nowhere Land

dont know. im free human... i will do whatever i will like and want. im poet and i live in my world. no matter where i will succeed or where i wont.
and too much patriotism is nationalism.

I'm not a nationalist,I love all nations,some people say they hate Turkish people,I don't,I hate people who had done the genocide,but not their children,grandsons. They have no guilt in what their parents have done.Is it a nationalism?!

i dont say you are nationalist or its a nationalism. i dont like these people who hate turks too, believe me i met really lot of these. well, turks are cruel and just assholes but not every one. till they didnt do anything bad to me, i dont care. but of course my grandfather was wictim of genocide partly, his parents were killed there, so i have something with that to do.

My grandparents were victims of genocide too.And to me it's very important Turkey to accept they have killed millions innocent people,but I'm afraid it won't be soon

well, i am not as near for that as you, becayse i am not true armenian. but it is really near to me because such things interest me and my family took part there... so it is near to me theme. and i dont think Turkey will recognize Genocide as long as it will be good friend to USA.

Oh man, this is quite serious! I wait one day and then I decide if I put your conversation here into the serious Discussion Forum

you have been talking about patriotism...
I know this word-but i have no clue , how it is to be a patriot .
when i grew up , something like patriotism you hadn´t to have as a german .
in school we were taught what germans did in WWII -
and it was like : "and now be ashamed that you are german , too " ,
though it was several generations later.
I´m asking especially the other germans here :
were you taught something like being proud at your fatherland ?
apart of the Dichters and Denker s , Brad...

Ushi,personally I think that you must be proud of you're german

Berji, dont do this. we want speak here because its a part of songs meaning, we are talking about it. i know you will understand.

well, here if we would kill 100000 people our goverment would say "be proud, you killed..." - so Ushi i think that Germany is very brave and fair and great country that they do so. of course they were not right that did it to kids, but anyway, they were right for veterans. so be proud.

Berj,if you do that I won't post anymore
Sorry vitamin but I think you're wrong.Hitler has killed innocent people,the same had happened to armenian people,so can you say that turkish people must be proud of soldiers who killed armenians only because they though armenians were their enemies?
Personally I think Germany had a great history,you must be proud of it but the same time accept,remember and try not to repeat the mistake they had done in Word War2.It's my opinion.

damn, you got me so wrong. you didnt understand me. all i wanted to say, was that it was right that they said that germany did bad thing. they realized that their nation killed so much poeople and they accepted that and didnt let children deny it but made them know. all i want say is that they were right, because because of that Germany is one of the greatest country with greatest people. from birth they are educated that there is not only good that their country did, but sins too.
vopsem, ja hotel skazat cto oni dolzni gorditsa svojei stranoj potomusto oni uculu svojih ditej tomu sto jih strana delala grehi toze. takim obrazom naucili detej bit lucimi i ponimat eto, i prinemat. ti neponila menja.

not only they did bad things. i dont try to say germans are and were so good. all i try to say that they were right that said to their children that their country was best. but they told how cruel it also is. i dont think that USSR if would do something like this, they wouldnt say same.

Da ya ne takya tupaya,ponyala chto ti pisal na angliyskom,perevodit ne nado,thanks for you expained

ja etovo negovoril vo pervoh, vo vtorih nipisal eto potomusta dumal cto ti nepojmos, a potomusto ja neocen horoso pisu po anglijskij, taksto dumal jesli nepojmos cto ja govoru na anglijskom pojmos na ruskom.

ti tam napisal svoyu misl ne do konca,nu da ladno,ya ponyala chto ti imeesh v vidu

otlicno.

Oh yes, Ushi! I'm fucking proud of being german, I'm proud to live in ONE germany and not two, I'm proud of our laws and our democracy.
I was taught that we did mistakes, but everyone else did mistakes, too. We can be patriotic as long as we remember the past and their mistakes.
We're a peaceful generation now, well, mostly peaceful^^
And the schools today teach those stuff, too. We were never told "Be ashamed of what happened"and we were always allowed to say our opinion, as long as we were able to state it with sources.

Or did you mean that I shouldn't post?

Whatever, at last NOW the topic earned it's place in a serious forum!

Brad...wie kommst´n da drauf?

the essence of what vitamins said ....
FOR ALL THOSE WHO STILL DID NOT GET IT !! :

He was meaning :
In contrary to the Turks , for example , germany teaches its children what really happened .
And there are many other countries ,too , which create a fake past .
he never said , it was good what the germans did in WWII or WWI

'berji, this generation oppositive is not peacful. only we dont have just 2-3 humans who role the world, only differnce. but all is much worse actually.
Brad, you and Ushi learnt in different time, so you cant quete her saying what they said to hert and what they say to you.

and damn, you shouldnt move this topic... its unfair man.

Brad...he sees that quite right with learning in different times .
and don´t forget : completely different kind of teachers-generation

but we don´t have 2-3 people ruling the world in my opinion .
I think , not even governments are ruling the world anymore.
governments are dependant from economies .
and we a re ruled by google , the OPEC , gazprom , banks
all producers and transporters of energy , for that . electricc juice , gas and oil..

Brad..he is right again...it is HIS thread , so to say..and it belongs to "written"

that is the difference. before there were like 3 countries, or 4... whos great men would say something, and it would happen. now there is like indipendence. everyone has his own, but big bosses need this old time back, when they could be rulers. so it all fails even more then where there was Stalin, Hitler, Churchil and so on. now there is Bush but also many other, MANY as i said, who disagree, and this Stalin-Hitler kind Bush alone can not do anything.

Gazprom? what the fuck are you talking again? what is Gazprom here to do?? you said 'gas and il' so it belongs there. these companies like Gazprom are maybe 100 around the word, only Gazprom is biggest one, so we all can make shit on that now. Ushi stop it.

you can´t know what i wanted to say...
those companies like gazprom ( for example!!)
are demanding more and more money . which causes the countries
which are dependant from this product , to highten the prizes for people .
and because there are two or three times hightening of prices for electrical juice AND gas AND oil a year , people don´t have much money anymore in their pockets to spend . which causes the market to stagnate . which causes the european central bank to react .
because when the citizens have no money anymore they can´t buy something , which has effects on the whole economy...
you see , how it all works together ? it is a circle...everything depends on each other . and it´s a rather unstable balance . always in danger to collapse...

this was just one little example of how companies rule the world ,
there are so much , it would fill pages....
It is all part of Globalization....and as good sides globalization has on some aspects ,
it will drive normal citizens into ruin and bankers , politicians and managers
put more money to Liechtenstein...
right now there are already enough people who can just satisfy the
most urgent needs . if this spiral down is going on in this speed...
well..in 10 years you can have a PC for 5 Euro...but you won´t be able to pay the electrical juice you need for it .
you were growing up , when your country just had gotten its indepence ...whoa ! there must have been a lot of people cheering and hoping for a bright and better future .
and for a decade maybe , Latvija was on an updrift...
but nowadays , it is caught in the great maelstrom , too .
few people getting richer and richer , stealing money from taxpayers .

All that blah - blah about world - peace....
Nobody of those who are in power wants world-peace .
because nobody can AFFORD world - peace .
world-peace would ruin economies even more . ......
that´s why they see to it , that there are always litle "trouble areas " like kosovo , for example...

i even dont want to know what you wanted to say, because you always say same. goddamn! but you cant always take for example Gazprom! do you know only that company? you said 'companies like this' - so its stupid to mention one company! than say 'oil, gas or whatever COMPANIES' not always just one. its really not good. its their business and Gazprom is not only company that does that, so you cant pblame only it. but you are blaming. maybe because its only company you know. this is not example, this is real blaming of one company, because you always when talk about this theme talk only about Gazprom, and its not example anymore. stupid.

don´t summarize this all on the word gazprom .fuck .
ic ould have mentioned "shell " , too or any other goddammit .
i said much more than just this....
but somehow it doesn´t matter....we don´t understand each other and that´s it.

i will summarize, because it is just stupid! and i even dont want understand. you should say "oil or gas companies" not always mention one. you always did this. and yeah, actually for me there is no matter about rest what you said, because for me you are wrong and i just cant leave it, because it makes for me sense like you dont know and just say.

you see , you didn´t even read it all .
you say I talk always the same ?
i never mentioned LIECHTENSTEIN before .
and i bet you don´t know what I was referring to .
and it wasn´t even meant especially to you...
ever had the idea I could address all the other people here ,too
for a change ?
because here are some germans , who will know exactly why i was mentioning
liechtenstein...

that´s what i call a try to initialize a discussion , where more persons take part .
you see , because I don´tsee just one thing .
always the "big picture" on my mind.....